philipdunnart
What is pleasure?
Socrates
Pleasure as I understand it, is the temporary relief of pain or tension. To be pleased is to be at ease. To experience pleasure is only temporary as we eventually return to some sort of baseline which we cannot remain at for too long, and if we overindulge, we will experience displeasure due to our excess. Therefore, pleasure in my view is a feeling that exists mostly in relation to pain.
philipdunnart
Can one be pleased with the displeasure of another?
Socrates
It is certainly possible to be pleased due to the misfortune of another. I have seen people take pleasure in the pain of others, whether it be physical or emotional. But then does this not mean that the displeasure of the victim is the source of their pleasure? Therefore, does the displeasure not have primacy in this relationship? And do we have a right to experience pleasure at the expense of others?
philipdunnart
Oh yes. That displeasure would be the source of pleasure for both the observer and the participant.
Socrates
Yes, but then how can we say that pleasure is the more fundamental feeling? Is the pleasure of the observer not always a derivative of the displeasure of the victim? And do we have the right to inflict pain on others, even if it brings us pleasure?
philipdunnart
I guess we’re talking about duality here. For there to be black, there must be white.
Socrates
Duality is definitely an important concept as it applies to many ideas and experiences. In many ways we exist only in contrast to other things and people. Without white we would not understand black as we have no knowledge of either without the other. If we experience pleasure, then we must inevitably also experience displeasure. A life focused only on pleasure would have no meaning if we do not know displeasure.
philipdunnart
Is it possible to opt out of this duality by developing a more detached philosophy?
Socrates
This is a very difficult question to answer. In one sense if we are able to learn to be unbothered by pain and displeasure then we have the ability to opt out by remaining detached from the world. By being detached we can remain objective and see a big picture and not become trapped in a cycle of emotions that have the potential to control us. However, we also run the risk of becoming apathetic and not caring about anything or anyone in our detachment.
philipdunnart
Caring about anything or anyone, then, must mean that we tend to the observing of their contrast. We take notice of how they cycle through pleasures and pains? Is that true caring?
Socrates
I would say yes, because caring means that we allow ourselves to be vulnerable emotionally in regards to something or someone else. We would experience pains due to their misfortune but also be affected by their pleasure as well. We care because we have some emotional involvement with another, and their pleasure and pain becomes a shared experience for us. To truly care I believe that we must be willing to feel both pleasure and displeasure as a means of showing our support for them. It involves some form of self-sacrifice even though it can be a beautiful experience.
philipdunnart
This doesn’t sound like any kind of truth. It sounds like the layering on of a narrative.
Socrates
I do understand your hesitance in labeling my response as truth. The reality is that I do not know with absolute certainty if caring is the best response to life. But I do know that I feel it to be meaningful to experience both pleasure and displeasure in my journey through this world. To remain detached may help me understand some important truths about life, but I do think it would come at the cost of not experiencing many of the things that I do consider to be meaningful.
philipdunnart
What do you consider to be meaningful?
Socrates
In my view meaning in life is always in relation to other things or people. To experience pleasure while being involved with another is very meaningful to me.
philipdunnart
Do you think you are the chooser of your attachment or detachment?
Socrates
You got me thinking a little bit with this question now. It is true that I do not consider myself to be the chooser in many aspects of my life, as I am not really a big believer of free will. But if you accept that we do not have true free will, then to accept the reality of this situation and go with it I believe is a choice. I guess I am choosing now to experience this attachment with you in this conversation in this very moment! And I must say that I think it is a good choice.